so this is the basic logical flaw in christianity i believe.
a brother identified it from the stage for me in a talk.
we all agree (as christians and jw's) that the ransom was necessary because adam lost his perfection and everlasting life.. this is a paraphrase from the talk:.
godrulz
Other verses show that we must rightly divide the Word, not misquote it, have Jesus open up the meaning, have teachers teach on it, be Bereans, etc.
Did I misquote something? You on the other hand have rejected the CLEAR teaching.
We would not have so many doctrinal disputes and false religions if it needs no interpreting by men?
We would not have so many doctrinal disputes and false religions if there were no interpreting by men!
so this is the basic logical flaw in christianity i believe.
a brother identified it from the stage for me in a talk.
we all agree (as christians and jw's) that the ransom was necessary because adam lost his perfection and everlasting life.. this is a paraphrase from the talk:.
godrulz
Are you a Prophet?
Jesus and Paul were.
so this is the basic logical flaw in christianity i believe.
a brother identified it from the stage for me in a talk.
we all agree (as christians and jw's) that the ransom was necessary because adam lost his perfection and everlasting life.. this is a paraphrase from the talk:.
godrulz
Quoting a verse is not interpreting it.
Amen! It needs NO interpreting by men. That's why I'm not interpreting anything I'm simply quoting scripture
2Pe 1:20
knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. 21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
so this is the basic logical flaw in christianity i believe.
a brother identified it from the stage for me in a talk.
we all agree (as christians and jw's) that the ransom was necessary because adam lost his perfection and everlasting life.. this is a paraphrase from the talk:.
djeggnog
Faith is actually the confidence that one has in the reality of something unseen, like, for example, like the confidence you put in what the signature scrawled on the personal check you accept in exchange for the goods and services you will have rendered means, the confidence you place in the payor's endorsement representing the payor's pledge to you that his or her bank will honor your demand for the amount pledged even though the payor is a stranger to you.
I see. So "faith" in the check comes from the person that recieves it, instead of the person that signs it? OK I think. If you say so.
Like the psalmist said, Jehovah God has been "my confidence from my youth"; he is no stranger to me, because I've come to know him from early on,
Let me get this straight, the "confidence" (faith) in your example, comes from the psalmist, not God? How could God be the very thing and not be the sorce?
I'm sorry but you seem much more like the deciples that left Jesus in John 6. They left him because, he told them (among other things) "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
Why do these things cause you to stumble? You should be looking to the Jesus of Hebrews 12:2 who is the Author and Finisher of my faith.
Why do you think so many left Jesus, in John 6 after he said: "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day"? Yet many left.
He also said in verse 44:"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day
and again in verse 65: "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."
Yet in the very next verse it says "many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore."
I believe the only conclusion can be, they did not recieve "the work of God" and believe or come, because they were never granted faith in him from the Father.
so this is the basic logical flaw in christianity i believe.
a brother identified it from the stage for me in a talk.
we all agree (as christians and jw's) that the ransom was necessary because adam lost his perfection and everlasting life.. this is a paraphrase from the talk:.
godrulz
The Bible does not portray faith as a gift...
djeggnog
You want to believe faith to be a gift from God, that's fine, but the good news doesn't teach such an idea. ...but faith is not a gift from God to anyone.
Oh really? hmmm
Php 1:29
For to you it is given on behalf of Christ not only to believe on Him, but also to suffer for His sake,
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
Are you walking away from our L ord in John chapter 6 and Php 1:29?
so this is the basic logical flaw in christianity i believe.
a brother identified it from the stage for me in a talk.
we all agree (as christians and jw's) that the ransom was necessary because adam lost his perfection and everlasting life.. this is a paraphrase from the talk:.
godrulz
Salvation is relational, free, reciprocal loving,
C'mon admitt your boosting, at least just a little. I agree that Grace is a gift, but it's "Grace through faith" which is the gift of God. Either grace and faith come from God or you're bragging about your faith.
Eph 2:9
not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Here's another example "I am not Arminian anymore. I am a more consistent, biblical free will theist,"
You asked: "His death saves both of us, but how do you explain why some are not saved"
I don't explain it, Jesus did:
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believein Him whom He has sent."
Joh 6:44"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
Joh 6:61 But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, "Does this cause you to stumble?"
You say: "double predestination is odious"
Joh 6:65
And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."
Joh 6:66
As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
You can lable me what ever you like. Calvin got some things right and some things wrong, just like all the reformers, including you.
I'd also like to know, why you feel the need to force me to take credit for something (faith) I know to be a precious gift to me from God?
so this is the basic logical flaw in christianity i believe.
a brother identified it from the stage for me in a talk.
we all agree (as christians and jw's) that the ransom was necessary because adam lost his perfection and everlasting life.. this is a paraphrase from the talk:.
godrulz
If faith was a unilateral, causative gift, then why are all not saved (universalism; double predestination issues)?
You've got a bigger "universalism" problem than I do.
If Christ died for all, on what basis can anyone be condemned?
so this is the basic logical flaw in christianity i believe.
a brother identified it from the stage for me in a talk.
we all agree (as christians and jw's) that the ransom was necessary because adam lost his perfection and everlasting life.. this is a paraphrase from the talk:.
godrulz
I'm sure God is real impressed with your gift of faith.
Arminians think the "ransom" only makes them "savable" (save able), so his death didn't actually accomplish anything. I believe Christ's death actually saved me.
so this is the basic logical flaw in christianity i believe.
a brother identified it from the stage for me in a talk.
we all agree (as christians and jw's) that the ransom was necessary because adam lost his perfection and everlasting life.. this is a paraphrase from the talk:.
djeggnog
I asked:
This faith that you're "exercising", does that come from you?
You said:
Yes, of course.
I guess that's the difference between us, I believe that faith is a gift from God to his children.
so this is the basic logical flaw in christianity i believe.
a brother identified it from the stage for me in a talk.
we all agree (as christians and jw's) that the ransom was necessary because adam lost his perfection and everlasting life.. this is a paraphrase from the talk:.
djeggnog
Now God, being the epitome of righteousness, could not just pardon our sins without there being a legitimate basis, in fact, for his granting such a pardon to us, and he made it possible for our sins to be pardoned by having his son -- our uncle -- pay the ransom, one perfect life for another perfect life. However, because Jehovah, being our proverbial grandfather, so to speak, is willing to become reconciled with only those of Adam's redeemed children that prove to be obedient to all of the things that Jesus taught, so mankind's salvation comes with one condition, namely, that we exercise faith in Jesus, for only those exercising faith in Jesus will gain eternal life, whereas those that refuse to exercise faith in Jesus will not see life at all.
This faith that you're "exercising", does that come from you? If so, what's so special about you, that you have it (faith) and others don't?
